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Post by RJ Alden Lackie on Aug 10, 2013 19:57:56 GMT
Who among us has taken a shot at producing an indie webseries? I might be taking the plunge late this year or sometime next. Shannon Litt, any wisdom from your work on Thorns?
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Post by Srini Madhavan on Aug 11, 2013 23:31:15 GMT
I've been having a go at developing web series before..
It seems that there are a number of things to consider when writing a series, first of all being that one needs to write within a very tight budget. Currently, unless you have a corporate sponsor, it's very hard to make money from a web series. So it's often self-financed which is tough, even with the existence of sites like Kickstarter.
I'm currently in early development for a web series and it's already evident that it's probably going to cost too much, which means back to the drawing board to either adapt it to a lower-budget situation or start entirely from scratch.
Alden, as someone who has written multiple webisode series, do you write keeping budget in mind (despite not writing it with the sole purpose of having it filmed) or do you just write what best fits your story?
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Post by Dan Taylor on Aug 12, 2013 0:01:32 GMT
Trust me, I've definitely been thinking about it.
But as Srini outlined, it's tough to come up with a good idea, an idea that people are going to be interested in, an idea that is with in an often limited budget you have and an idea that is with in your limitations as a creator!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2013 0:59:28 GMT
You also need resources! I really would love to do some of my ideas in a video format but when you don't have any people around that would be willing to do it or for that matter be brave enough to put an ad up somewhere for people to do something for free, nowadays - people don't do free if they don't know you ! You'll come to find out that I'm an idea person. I sit at work all day, daydreaming about stories that I would like to tell or pitch or whatever and most of the time I know I'm not going to ever get there. Anyways (enough babble) I hope we get to see a lot of stuff as far as video stuff filter through the compass!
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Post by RJ Alden Lackie on Aug 12, 2013 1:54:11 GMT
Alden, as someone who has written multiple webisode series, do you write keeping budget in mind (despite not writing it with the sole purpose of having it filmed) or do you just write what best fits your story? It really depends. On something like Dead City Blues, I knew there was no real reason to consider budget as I was doing it as a straight script series, and that opened a lot of options for me. Action sequences, different supernatural beasts, different locales. DCB could only work, probably, if animated for adults. However, I spend a lot of time ruminating on what would be 'affordable' webseries right down to the concept, and I've found that by thinking of simple, character-based ideas, I can create something that really shows off the writing and acting rather than the budget. Those scripts tend to shine pretty brightly to readers (and potential producers!), as they're often very much focused on creating deep, interesting character interactions. The one webseries I do kind of have under my belt (it's in development with Smokebomb and we've shot a pilot), it only happened because when I was considering what to write for my big 4th year undergrad project, I stumbled across an idea that would be low-budget and show off my skills - character depth and interaction, supernatural mythology, dialogue over action. By essentially making a 'bottle series' (to paraphrase the more common Bottle Episode), it can both make your show producible and a better-written show.
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Post by Shannon Litt on Aug 21, 2013 14:35:49 GMT
Sorry Bob, didn't see this until now! I completely agree with most of the above sentiments... most people think web-series are a cop out, but they're actually a lot tougher to execute. And as a relatively new format, people are still finding their sea legs creating them. I learned a ton from writing and directing Thorns — most importantly about length. Bitesize episodes, maximum 2 minutes, seem to work best. When you're doing a web-series, it seems like you need to play to your strengths. Keep each episode short and sweet, unless you've got the budget and writing prowess to do otherwise. Bob, "Party at Emily's" and "The Inhuman Condition" are perfect this way. They're short but they really keep your attention. And the fact that they're set, largely, in one location, definitely helps keep the shows on tight budgets. I wouldn't even consider Kickstarter - unless you're producing something that hits people at home (focusing on some sort of disease and creating awareness, for example) or you're writing a show about gaming (in very general and stereotypical terms, gamers = smart = rich), you're essentially just asking your family and friends for $$$. Personally, I don't really like doing that. Anyone got any ideas for web-series in the pipeline?
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Post by Shannon Litt on Aug 21, 2013 14:37:00 GMT
Also, as Canadians we're *always* thinking of ways to save Hence most of our key works being character-based... we don't have the budgets for much more, haha.
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Post by A J. Black on Aug 21, 2013 15:29:06 GMT
I am actually strongly considering doing a web series, which I would of course air on Compass. I have a script as a starting point, characters, a simple premise, wouldn't cost much to make. I have two amateur actors & there's a good chance I could rope in more for free. What I don't have yet is the equipment but I'm working on that. The original script is now out to my actors & I'm going from there...
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Post by Dan Taylor on Aug 21, 2013 15:54:59 GMT
I am actually strongly considering doing a web series, which I would of course air on Compass. Good to hear!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2013 16:54:51 GMT
I do have ideas but I have too many obstacles in my way and right now I'm feeling that most people wouldn't and don't take me serious with stuff so I don't feel that I can go forward on it. I would love to do one though - I think one dealing with writers would be cool! Like a business that is creating a web series or running a production company and you have "the Office" type of stuff going on, anyways!
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Post by Srini Madhavan on Aug 21, 2013 23:39:41 GMT
I've had a few web series concepts come and go in the past. I'll admit that I love spectacle (whilst still having a great story, e.g. The Dark Knight. Inception) and so a lot of my concepts have been action-oriented, which is generally quite difficult to shoot on a tiny budget.
Recently I've learnt a lot more about character-based writing as opposed to plot-based writing, and I'm slowly developing confidence in writing in that way. The idea I've currently got is a bit of a hybrid, leaning more on action plot-based storytelling. I'm trying to see how far I can push it towards a character oriented story whilst maintaining the action element. If that works, I hope to take my time in writing a season with one or two other writers.
As for the length of webseries - I tend to think that episode lengths really depend on what you're trying to achieve. Lots of comedy web series are sort of sketch comedy, which suits the 2-3 minute length. The Inspector Spacetime series had mostly two minute episodes. On the other hand, I think drama (taking the broad, TV definition instead of the movie definition) needs more time, where I think the ten minute length works well - it's the length of the average dramatic short film, and it's still long enough to have some sort of arc. In fact, it's the length of a short TV Act, where we all know you can cover quite a bit in that time. Then you have something that's just cropping up, which is the half-hour with VGHS Season 2, running like a TV comedy series.
I think that's how things are going to go - gravitating towards TV length episodes since most people watch TV on their computers and laptops anyway. The issue is being able to make that much content on a budget.
Going back to webseries - it seems that the most bankable option in the dramatic category is, like Shannon and Alden said, character based. The trick is actually coming up with such a series!
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Post by RJ Alden Lackie on Aug 23, 2013 0:18:25 GMT
I wouldn't even consider Kickstarter - unless you're producing something that hits people at home (focusing on some sort of disease and creating awareness, for example) or you're writing a show about gaming (in very general and stereotypical terms, gamers = smart = rich), you're essentially just asking your family and friends for $$$. Personally, I don't really like doing that. There are a handful of other niches too, actually. Steph Ouaknine and I have had a lot of conversations about this. One big niche is the queer/QUILTBAG/LGBT audience. Because there are a lot of wealthy and influential queer folks, they can put money behind webseries that appeal to them, which is how The Outs (one of my favourite webseries out there, mostly because of episode #5) managed to both fund the back half of its series and get their next series, whatever this is, funded on KS. And because there's plenty of media-savvy young queer folks, plus queer-friendly folks who just want a good story, there's also a pretty broad available audience that have an invested reason to watch and aren't being serviced as much as they'd like by TV. One of the most successful Canadian indie webseries, Out With Dad, is also aimed at this audience. (I haven't seen it, can't comment on its quality.) 5-10 minutes is definitely the sweet spot. I've found my magic number is 7-8 minutes, I think, if there's multiple scenes. Those two concepts (both webseries scripts of mine that Shannon's read!) were definitely designed to be budget-conscious, and I've found it can actually work in their favour: it ups the tension and prevents the characters from escaping emotionally-charged moments. I am actually strongly considering doing a web series, which I would of course air on Compass. I have a script as a starting point, characters, a simple premise, wouldn't cost much to make. I have two amateur actors & there's a good chance I could rope in more for free. What I don't have yet is the equipment but I'm working on that. The original script is now out to my actors & I'm going from there... Cannot wait to see this, mate! If you ever want someone w plenty of experience in the webisode format to take a look, pop me a PM any time. I do have ideas but I have too many obstacles in my way and right now I'm feeling that most people wouldn't and don't take me serious with stuff so I don't feel that I can go forward on it. Having worked with you quite a bit so far on Arcadia and seen your growth these past few months, Andrew, I do think you have more developing to do before considering production - but, you're also improving greatly and I'm awfully proud of the movement you've made, so don't feel like it's never going to happen! It's on its way. You just want to get to a place where people will love it before investing so much into a video series. I've had a few web series concepts come and go in the past. I'll admit that I love spectacle (whilst still having a great story, e.g. The Dark Knight. Inception) and so a lot of my concepts have been action-oriented, which is generally quite difficult to shoot on a tiny budget. Don't worry, a lot of folks have trouble scaling down their more ambitious concepts. The truth is, being able to be creative on a budget will serve you greatly before you break out as writing scripts that can be great on a low budget provide a huge incentive for producers to work with you early on. As well as, it means you can potentially produce and/or direct your own stuff and have it work as a great sample of your work. After all, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia's original pilot was shot for less than $200, and after this current season it will have produced over 100 episodes at FX!That's great! If you want to test out the material before trying to produce it, or if you're eying it as a test run to keep developing your skills, remember to pitch it here at Compass! I've read a bit of your writing and I don't think you'd have a problem scoring a pickup for said series here. Yup, we're seeing a lot of diversification in webseries format, but there seem to be 4 distinct camps: comedies under 5 minutes, the 8-10 minute drama, the half-hour comedy and the half-hour drama. The two former seem to survive on ad revenue while the latter two either require big investors or power4ful Kickstarter campaigns, for those interested in those formats!Agreed!
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Post by A J. Black on Aug 23, 2013 9:06:55 GMT
Thanks Alden, may well take you up on that. It's looking increasingly like I'll have the funds to get the equipment now too, so this'll hopefully start to look more like a reality next few months.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2013 12:16:35 GMT
Agreed. I know I need more work and YES I want to get to the place where people LOVE IT
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Post by Srini Madhavan on Aug 23, 2013 13:59:48 GMT
Cheers for the offer and the compliment mate. I'm taking my time with this one, mainly because I don't have a lot of time to spend, but I'll be sure to pitch a series, whether scripted or produced webisodes.
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